Ramana Maharshi Says Unless The Realization Is Eternal It Cannot Be Much Helpful

Q: Many visitors here tell me that they get visions or thought-currents from you. I have been here for the last month and a half and still I have not the slightest experience of any kind. Is it because I am unworthy of your grace?

A: Visions and thought-currents are had according to the state of mind. It depends on the individuals and not upon the universal presence. Moreover, they are immaterial. What matters is peace of mind.What is realization? Is it to see God with four hands, bearing a conch, a wheel and a club? Even if God should appear in that form, how is the disciple's ignorance wiped out ? The truth must eternal realization. The direct perception is ever-present experience.

God himself is known when he is directly perceived. It does not mean that he appears before the devotee in some particular form. Unless the realization is eternal it cannot serve any useful purpose. Can the appearance of God with four hands be eternal realization? It is phenomenal and illusory.

There must be a seer. The seer alone is real and eternal.Let God appear as the light of a million suns. Is it pratyaksha [direct experience]? To see a vision of God the eyes and the mind are necessary. It is indirect knowledge, whereas the seer is direct experience. The seer alone is pratyaksha.

Source: Be as you are – The teachings of Sri Ramana Maharishi By David Godman

My Friend Subramanian.R wants to add few more points

Some devotee asked Bhagavan: "Bhagavan! What will you do if Arunachaleswara comes before you? What will you ask Him or say?"

Bhagavan smiled and said: "I would say, O Arunachala! Do not keep this business of coming and going before me. Please stay put in my Heart."

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Ramana Maharshi says There are grades only in the experience of the jiva and not in Reality

Devotee: “There must be stages of progress for gaining the Absolute. Are there grades of Reality?”

Bhagavan: “There are no grades of Reality. There are grades in the experience of the jiva.”

Note: “Grades of Reality?” Reality is perfect because it is partless, integral, and changeless, or else it contradicts itself.So, Reality is not affected by evolution, nor is it divisible into a number of imperfect beings who need the evolution to attain perfection. We have seen elsewhere that the jiva is the Self itself, but deluded.

The appearance of multiplicity of jivas is an illusion due to the unfoldment of the senses which create qualities and hence differences. Bhagavan says that it is not the Self that has grades but the experiences of the jivas. Thus the difference between the savage and the Jnani is one of experience, that is, of mental outlooks and not of substance — of being.

Devotee: “There is a multiplicity of jivas. Jivas are certainly many.”

Bhagavan: “Jiva is called so because he sees the world. A dreamer sees many jivas in dream, but all of them are not real. The dreamer alone exists and he sees all. So it is with the individuals and the world.”

Note: The critics argue that if the world is the senses, as Vedanta says, individual senses would show exclusively individual worlds, so that there would be as many worlds as there are human beings with no connection with one another,which experience disproves.

Bhagavan answers that all the senses, all the men and all the worlds are the dreams or thoughts of the jiva, which alone exists as the dreamer or thinker. As the jiva in dream sees other jivas with bodies and senses, without any of them enjoying real existence, so it does in the waking state (jagrat).

Jagrat is called waking only in comparison with the dream state known to us, because the senses are then all out to intensify the illusion of a real external world, whereas the dream state feeds on mere impressions carried over from the state of jagrat, and not on the senses, which are then withdrawn.

Source: REFLECTIONS ON TALKS WITH SRI RAMANA MAHARSHI By S.S. COHEN

My Spiritual Friends Subramanian and Udai garu wants to add few points

Yes. Reality is only One and partless and without differences.

Kaivalya Navaneetam however says that there are 7 Jnana Bhoomis, the Lands of Wisdom.

And there are 4 types of Jivan Muktas.

The Sadhakas reach subeccha, vicharana and dhanumansi. They
are not Jivan Muktas. They attain heaven and some posts like
Indra and then come back to earth to pursue their sadhana.

The one who reaches the fourth stage, is Brahmavid.
The one who reaches the fifth stage, is Brahmavidvara,
The one who reaches the sixth stage, is Brahmavidavariya.
The one who reaches the seventh state is, Brahmavidvarishta.

The fourth stage is called Sattvapatti. The fifth is Asamsatti,
the sixth is Pathartha bhavana, he seventh is Turiya.

(Kaivalya Navaneetam, Verses 255-257).

Udai garu says,

Essentially one who knows that he is Consciousness can be said to have the knowledge.
But if it gets limited to the mind and he or she is not able to remain totally detached due to vasanas, they live like ordinary humans. But in such cases, the vasanas will eventually dissolve.and as the vasanas dissolve they gain conviction that they are Consciousness and start owning it up.

The process is slow. And i think it cannot be forced to happen fast.As Kabir says:

Dheere Dheere re mana. Dheere sab kuch hoye [Slowly, Slowly oh mind! Slowly everything happens].Maali seenche sau ghada , ritu aye phal hoye kabira, rithu aye phal hoye [The garder may water the plant with 100 pots of water.but it will give fruits only when its season].

With spiritual practice also, one has to allow things to happen ... slowly, but without stopping, one should start to remain as Self.

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Ramana Maharshi Says Unless The Realisation Be Eternal It Cannot Serve Any Useful Purpose

Talk 469

What is Realisation? Is it to see God with four hands, bearing conch, wheel, club, etc.? Even if God should appear in that form,how is the disciple’s ignorance wiped out? The truth must be eternal realisation. The direct perception is ever-present Experience.God Himself is known as directly perceived. It does not mean that He appears before the devotee as said above.

Unless the Realisation be eternal it cannot serve any useful purpose. Can the appearance with four hands be eternal realisation? It is phenomenal and illusory.There must be a seer. The seer alone is real and eternal.

Let God appear as the light of a million suns: Is it pratyaksha? To see it, the eyes, the mind, etc. are necessary. It is indirect knowledge,whereas the seer is direct experience. The seer alone is pratyaksha.

All other perceptions are only secondary knowledge. The present super-imposition of the body as ‘I’ is so deep-rooted, that the vision before the eyes is considered pratyaksha but not the seer himself.No one wants realisation because there is no one who is not realised.

Can anyone say that he is not already realised or that he is apart from the Self? No. Evidently all are realised. What makes him unhappy is the desire to exercise extraordinary powers. He knows that he cannot do so. Therefore he wants God to appear before him, confer all His powers on the devotee, and keep Himself in the background. In short,God should abdicate His powers in favour of the man.

D.: It is all right for mahatmas like Sri Bhagavan to speak out so plainly.Because the Truth does not swerve from you, you consider it easy for all others. Nevertheless, the common folk have a real difficulty.

M.: Then does anyone say that he is not the Self?

D.: I meant to say that no one else has the courage to put things straight like Maharshi.

M.: Where is the courage in saying things as they are?

Source: Talks With Ramana Maharshi Book

Readers interested are requested to read below articles as well

http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2009/05/ramana-maharshi-why-do-religions-speak.html

http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2009/03/ramana-maharshi-comments-about-lord.html

http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2010/03/ramana-maharshi-says-to-find-out-truth.html

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Ramana Maharshi Says Realization is simply being oneself

22-3-46 Afternoon

Swami Sambuddananada of Sri Ramakrishna Mission said:

"I want to hear from Bhagavan Ramana's own lips, His own experience of Self Realization. Such beings are walking Upanishads."

Bhagavan said: "You say you think, I have attained Self Realization. I must know what you mean by Self Realization.What idea do you have in your mind about it?"

The Swami was not pleased with this counter-question. He added after some time: "I mean the Atma merging in the Paramatman."

Bhagavan Ramana said: "We do not know about the Paramatman or the Universal Soul, etc.,We know we exist.Nobody doubts he exists, though he may doubt the existence of God. So, if one finds out about the truth or source of oneself,that is all what is required."

The Swami thereupon said: "Bhagavan says 'Know Thyself'.

Bhagavan Ramana said:

"Even that is not correct. For if we talk of knowing the Self,there must be two Selves, one a knowing Self and the other which is known,and the process of knowing. The state we call Realization is simply being oneself,not knowing anything,not becoming anything.If one has realized, he is that which which alone is and which alone has always been.He cannot describe that.Of course,we loosely talk of Self Realization,for want of better term.How to "realize" or make Real that which alone is Real? What we are all doing is,realized or regard as real that which is not real.

This habit of ours has to be given up.All Sadhana under all systems of thought
is meant only for this end.When we give up regarding the unreal as real, then the reality alone will remain and we will be that."

Source: Source: DAY BY DAY WITH BHAGAVAN From the Diary of A. DEVARAJA MUDALIAR

Readers interested are requested to read below articles as well

http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2009/05/ramana-maharshi-why-do-religions-speak.html

http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2009/03/ramana-maharshi-comments-about-lord.html

http://prashantaboutindia.blogspot.com/2010/03/ramana-maharshi-says-unless-realisation.html

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