Which one to erase? By Ramana Maharshi Disciple Viswanathan

The inner instruments consisting of mind(thoughts),Buddhi(intellect),chittam(memory) and ahamkara(I notion) known in sanskrit as antharkarna and collectively known as mind.Now the question arises which of the four affects jnani and ajnani and which one has to be erased.

- With regards to manas(thoughts), a person cannot recognize objects without the thought of that object.When we see an object,unless the thought of object is recognized by the mind, the eye cannot recognize the object.For example if my concentration is else where and at that moment if somebody passes in front of me and later if i am asked whether i have noticed a person passing in front of me , i will say that I have not noticed anybody passing me since my thoughts were elsewhere even though my eyes were wide open.Hence manas(thoughts) need not be erased.

-With regard to buddhi(intellect), both jnani and ajnani have to have buddhi, other wise one cannot differentiate between right & wrong, good and bad,dharma & adharma.Hence, buddhi also need not be erased.

-With regard to Chittam(memory) also,both jnani and ajnani should have memory otherwise one cannot recollect the events.Hence, chittam also need not be erased.

- With regard to ahamkara or the I notion also known as individuality or Ego,the jnani does not have Ego or I notion whereas agnani has very strong ego. This ego or individualitry also known as I notion is the one which identifies with self and claims itself to be the self(I notion) and also identifies with objects including the body and claims everything as mine.Bhagavan wants us to erase this ego only and not other three components of antharkarna.

- Now,unless one knows what is ego, he cannot erase it.Then how to recognize the ego?It can be easily identified.For example,if we sit for meditation,for some time the mind will be in a state free from thoughts.Suddenly an entity will pop up (rise) within and if we are not vigilant, that entity will immediately identify with objects and we will go along with the thought of objects.

That entity, the subject is the ego also known as ahamkara or I notion & is the root cause of all misery in life and Bhagavan wants this ego only to be erased.The rise of this ego is due to inherent tendencies also known as vasanas or imprints.As long as vasanas are there, ego cannot be erased.

- However,we should not lose hope since our savior, Bhagavan has given an unique method to erase the ego.Here, Bhagavan says that whenever thought appears, instead of going along with thought, he wants us to obsere to whom the thought comes and when we get the answer I, Bhagavan wants us to observe from where the I notion has come up.Then,the mind(ego or ahamkara or I notion) will merge in its source.

For some time there will be a complete silence for some time and again, due to vasanas, the mind will project thought and again we have to repeat the method given by Bhagavan.

By this repeated practice,Bhagavan says that mind (ego or I notion)will get its power to remain in its source( Self).This is Self enquiry as per Bhagavan.Bhagavan wants us not to obsere the thought and instead wants us to observe the thinker.

- Once the EGO is gone for ever then man becomes god.An easy definition for God is : MAN MINUS EGO IS GOD.

Source: http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=5935.msg0#new

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Ramana Maharshi Disciple Sadhu Om About Two Meanings Of Mind

The word ‘mind’ is generally taken to be a collective name for the whole multitude of thoughts, although in actual fact the only fundamental and essential characteristic of the mind is the root thought ‘I’, the first person singular feeling.

Thus the word ‘mind’ may be said to have two meanings. Its primary meaning is the subjective aspect of the mind, namely the first person thought ‘I’, while its secondary meaning is the objective aspect of the mind, namely the multitude of other thoughts, all of which exist only by depending upon this first thought ‘I’. This multitude of thoughts is only a crowd of second person objects.

Source: The Path Of Sri Ramana Part Two By Sri Sadhu Om

Note: Moreover in srimad bhagavatam it is written

The mind is not to be killed.Mind or desire cannot be stopped, but to develop a desire to function for spiritual realization, the quality of engagement by the mind has to be changed. The mind is the pivot of the active sense organs, and as such if the quality of thinking,feeling and willing is changed, naturally the quality of actions by the instrumental senses will also change.

Srimad Bhagavatham, 2.1.17.

My Spritual Friend Viswanathan Garu wants to add few more points

In Sri Ramana Noorrirattu,under the chapter NaanYar , Bhagaan repeatedly uses the word Mana adakkam and I do not find the word mano nasam(killing of mind) anywhere.I consider the original Tamil version Nan yar as gospel..

Probability, when Naan Yar was translated in English/sanskrit, the word mano nasam has been introduced.This is the problem with translation of original tamil works of Bhagaan in other languages.As per Mr.Gangolli,in his video interview wide ,he says that mano nasam is not the appropriate word and mano nigraham is the proper word because the mind itself is non existence apart from Self and if so where is the question killing of non existence thing.

If you go through the English translation of Naan yar by Mr.Michel james whom i have highest regard,he uses the word mano nigraham only and not mano nasam and his transalion of Naan yar is reproduced below in italics.

PARAGRAPH SIXTEEN

Since in every [true spiritual] treatise it is said that for attaining mukti [spiritual emancipation, liberation or salvation] it is necessary [for us] to restrain [our] mind, after knowing that mano-nigraha [holding down, holding within, restraining, subduing, suppressing or destroying our mind] is the ultimate intention [or purpose] of [such] treatises, there is no benefit [to be gained] by studying without limit [a countless number of] treatises. For restraining [our] mind it is necessary [for us] to investigate ourself [in order to know] who [we really are], [but] instead [of doing so] how [can we know ourself by] investigating in treatises?

Bhagavan has given a beautiful answer about the state of Samadhi also known as Jagrat Sushupthi and i quote from Guru Ramana under the chapter meditation and the answer was dated 12th Feb 1936 and is as follows:In Samadhi,the mind is in jagrat, but being free from thoughts,it enjoys the bliss of sushupti in which the mind is withdrawn.In samadhi,the mind is so alert that it experiences Brahman.if it were not so fully awake,how would it know Brahman?.

From this reply of Bhagaan,it is clear that in Samadhi state which as per Bhagavan is the state of self,mind is fully awake and is also alert.I am sure that this answer by Bhagavan will clear the doubt whether there is mind(thoughts) or not after realization.

There is another beautiful definition given by Swami Suddhananda wrt to difference between deep sleep state and Samadhi state and is as follows."In deep sleep, you are withdrawn but you are not aware that you are withdrawn where as in Samadhi state you are withdrawn and you are also aware that you are withdrawn.

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